Data-Driven Pharma — Why Technology Alone Doesn't Fix the Shop Floor

00:00:09: and welcome here in Burkirchen.

00:00:12: I want to start with introducing myself, my name is Florian Seidel And i'm business unit manager of industrial informatics.

00:00:19: Here at CTS We are focusing on digitalization projects.

00:00:25: So everything from a shop floor From the process controller layer that gets connected upto the cloud Upto the ERP systems here with me, one of our partners.

00:00:41: Florian Werner and he also wants to introduce himself.

00:00:44: Thank you Florian.

00:00:45: So I'm Florien Werner.

00:00:47: i am working for Xenium.

00:00:48: We are an IT & Management consultancy And we focus on end-to-end delivery For IT projects and transformations.

00:00:55: That means from The strategy and the project planning Of a project leadership Until that this project Delivery like product owners and business analysts.

00:01:05: so we cover all what is needed in an IT project, except for the technical implementation.

00:01:10: That's why I'm very happy about this collaboration.

00:01:13: I am a principal consultant with focus on data-driven transformations and project leads... ...and business architecture, business analysts So everything which is with data and project management.

00:01:25: basically that's what I truly cover in projects.

00:01:29: And today we're going to talk about data and about data in pharma.

00:01:34: And let's start with Florian.

00:01:36: What do you typically see in the reality, on a shop floor and farmer organizations when it comes to data?

00:01:44: What are their typical problems?

00:01:45: what is typically things which they want to cover... ...and they're typically challenged with.

00:01:52: Yeah most of times when we come to customer side go into the shop floor and see everything, you will figure it out that there are very package unit-driven organizations.

00:02:10: So they plan something and get a new production line or packaging line... ...and then get their requests and vendors doing the implementation.

00:02:23: so compared to oil & gas or chemical plant where you have an overall DCS system that is managing everything here.

00:02:32: It's more isolated and step by step.

00:02:36: so there are always individual vendors, this also resides in a system.

00:02:44: it's very important to think about the data because most of times succeeding in the goal of production.

00:02:59: So to be or ensure their production and do so there, specifically they get everything in place And it's very fragmented from vendor systems.

00:03:11: It could also be that its different variations of vendors That are available for you most time is diverse.

00:03:24: Typically I have this diverse systems, this data silos where like the prioritization on production of course not on data protection.

00:03:33: and So what problems to bring?

00:03:37: that maybe?

00:03:38: Not with the shop floor but with a whole organization.

00:03:41: Yes It's very interesting because you then get at the problems.

00:03:45: Like everyone is expecting You know already which kind of data you want to get, but in reality it's then somewhere inside the PLC.

00:03:58: But you need someone that is telling you... ...which pointer in a PLC is residing into your process value?

00:04:05: That is really important for you because you don't wanna collect all the data!

00:04:12: So from my perspective this would be much more efficient if designing in a very early stage from your equipment design, that you also say which kind of process values are interesting for me because... That's no surprise honestly speaking.

00:04:30: You know what kinds of process value is important to you?

00:04:34: Because you designed it or your process engineers designed the factory accordingly.

00:04:39: Yeah and I mean this was not only at Pharma but especially there big reality so many raw data points typically which you just basically get via your process, or because we have to collect them due regulatory requirements.

00:04:58: But what is really important and I think also said the context.

00:05:02: that's important.

00:05:03: so it only needs data in their originating systems but you need a context of the data somewhere else where can use for overarching benefits isn't?

00:05:15: Yes brings us to the way where we say it's very important for us to figure out how can you get this insight fast and also in a clear, as you mentioned, unified namespace that are always using the same.

00:05:33: What we're typically using is the ICN-iD-V equipment model to structure everything when compared one line or side by side with more or less comparable architecture or something, that is done also for other third parties always the same.

00:05:51: So it's very important that the operator on the shop floor a process engineer and data analyst who are looking from cloud perspective if they're talking about identifying the same tag name in process value.

00:06:08: otherwise its quite tricky to talk if the tag always has a different name.

00:06:18: It's usually very hard for someone to translate in between, and even LLMs have them to work with you to figure that one out!

00:06:29: Yeah hopefully we figured it right way out.

00:06:31: not just like trying to figure it out the correct way when you come to client is this unified namespace, this common domain language already there or do you need to start with that when you're implementing something?

00:06:47: So is it already something which the client has figured out typically.

00:06:51: Or Is That Something Where You Need To Start?

00:06:54: There are two possibilities so I would say more.

00:06:58: in other industries.

00:06:59: they have more standards regarding tech naming and hierarchy conventions especially for pharmaceutical customers, as I mentioned before with different vendors that are achieving process goals.

00:07:19: They're not so focused on how we are structuring our data?

00:07:23: How do you really identify this?

00:07:26: Most of the times when they figure out even some sites sometimes have good practices and then another site is producing the same but has not distended.

00:07:38: And then, yeah it's starting a global initiative to figure out.

00:07:45: how can you standardize all this equipment level hierarchy in your organization and this is uh... Yeah!

00:07:53: Not the task that is done in a week or two?

00:07:56: I was about ask How much effort is there?

00:07:58: let say one site already having good ideas or already implemented technical solution but the other sides are lacking behind.

00:08:06: So as you said, it's probably not done in a few weeks.

00:08:11: so how would we approach that?

00:08:14: How long will it take for company to achieve this?

00:08:17: Typically

00:08:17: its very important that you identify then person inside of your company who is taking these tasks because it's a job someone has to do and it's an important job well connected in the company.

00:08:35: because you have to figure out from a production perspective, are there different business units that producing something different?

00:08:41: So they normally want to be aligned or on all of their factories produce the same.

00:08:48: That is always big question and then it could gain knowledge from these sites put them together And also yeah for one customer I think took more than a year, nearly two years to establish your standard.

00:09:06: And that's not so easy task and it has to do with communication with the sites figuring out what are their needs?

00:09:14: What they're doing at the moment?

00:09:16: Of course for everyone is like a side quest on them because usually they focussed in producing goods but also getting unified namespace.

00:09:33: I think one of the first examples, and we probably have a few more during our talk today.

00:09:39: This is an organizational change especially not only technical implementation or technical project but it's changed in way company works how things are done.

00:09:52: so you have to anchor that somehow as said already internally quite soon because if there external people who try do this at some point, somebody from the company needs to take it over.

00:10:06: And also as you said people who are affected by this change.

00:10:13: they need be taken care of because otherwise they won't accept this change.

00:10:18: so we have think what other priorities and not only the paints but maybe also benefits such a change on shop floor or also in IT side then maybe business.

00:10:31: It's not only, it is one dimensionally anymore and I think this also true for all the other things we're going to talk today about.

00:10:39: So most of time you have these technical perspective but... We as implementation partners need an overarching perspective on those kind changes And i think this unified namespace was a first example which quite interesting.

00:11:00: we will come back to this topic I think later.

00:11:03: Yeah, i totally agree on that part because it's always you need the bigger picture and getting a bigger picture already brings me in the scoping of an industrial data fabric we said, yeah for example you need a historian or an MES system and there is enterprise decision to implement it worldwide.

00:11:40: In reality implementing the software meant to say oh I have the same software i installed on first site second side third-side continue here but they work autonomously.

00:11:55: They don't talk with each other a connection to each other.

00:12:01: They don't know about the other site being there or aware of it, so an industrial data fabric is then really in that sense something where we change this... Where you have one system One platform!

00:12:16: ...where you do the configuration You'll have your data management inside and put tools on top of them for analysis To make use cases work.

00:12:27: This is system and this is definitely a big change in your organization, how you're working.

00:12:37: Specifically when you think about this OT data integration where you have the IT with all of its different departments achieving to make the firewalls, networking, routing everything that can communicate the OT side of it, when you think about okay I have to install this server.

00:13:01: I have installed their application next to my OT systems and connect them with my OT equipment.

00:13:10: so that is like a technical part of it.

00:13:13: then there's also an operational part where people on the shop floor who are working interact with software or process engineer wants to work with the data and get information from last batches, or a data analyst in cloud wants to utilize this data.

00:13:37: All of them are connecting into the same system working within that environment.

00:13:42: This is very big change because it's not only new software but also a way of working.

00:13:51: I now mentioned the perspective this industrial data fabric, maybe you can also tell us what's similar to a normal more IT focused solution or implementation.

00:14:06: Yeah I mean for us typically such an implementation is like most of the IT implementations and projects we do.

00:14:16: so from my perspective it's more... We have to understand the scope but especially on the IT department, which such an implementation takes.

00:14:28: Which team do you need?

00:14:30: Which use cases and requirements do we need to

00:14:33: fulfill?".

00:14:34: So it's more at some kind of a technical view but also like high-level views or what kinds of teams that are needed.

00:14:45: Do you have this management buy-in and what happens if your project doesn't come to go according to plan?

00:14:51: And also, If we then roll it out and going into the operations part of things how do we hand over?

00:14:57: To whom do we handle our disoperations.

00:15:00: I think that last part is most important.

00:15:02: This was typically covered too late in projects especially when We look from outside.

00:15:08: so where are not a part Of the project?

00:15:13: roll out and change management?

00:15:15: because people need to use this IT systems.

00:15:20: And the people who used it systems are the ones responsible if this IT implementation is successful or not, Because I had this case once.

00:15:33: If you implement an IT system and just say well technical information was done Now these users we're gone.

00:15:42: basically then people tend to not accept these new systems, either they use it the old way.

00:15:50: They did with an old solution or this wasn't really beneficial to implement a new solution which can do more because they just used as in all solutions but you don't use that at all.

00:16:01: so one case there was system which is implemented two years before we came and say We have this system up-and running and everybody's using it, well data is not really up to date anymore but somehow kind of confusing.

00:16:17: But then you already think when a system was used why the data isn't up-to-date?

00:16:22: So we're looking into teams where they say that if I have this new system our core processes are still with old systems which were never turned off because the new system cannot cover all use cases.

00:16:35: so what they had an implemented system two years ago which was not used.

00:16:39: So all the data migration you could throw it away, but first find out why people are not using systems.

00:16:48: and I think in IT projects... The easy part for me is typically planning a project seeing what team do we need estimating efforts seeing requirements that needs to be covered putting that in some kind of roadmap or something like testing it, implementing and then rolling out.

00:17:14: But you should never forget the last important part which is this combining technology with processes... ...and humans behind them!

00:17:23: And if one of these three things is not working well we don't have a system.

00:17:29: If you just take care of the process the ways are working will not change And the system won't be part of your organization, but also always something which is outside of your main processes.

00:17:42: If you think it's on care for humans and well thank God we are still all here important that there not only AI then they need to take out fire.

00:17:52: if I didn't take after people who were using systems than People want used assistance?

00:17:58: Then It will degenerate in not working the way you intended it to work.

00:18:05: And then all your implementation works is out of the window, so I think that we should always think about these three things technology IT systems processes and humans.

00:18:18: You need to combine this with totally different worlds.

00:18:22: So happy that we talk on this because i think there are demands in view but some different perspectives

00:18:33: also seen that before and it's so important to always have this communication up, in running.

00:18:41: And tell all the people they should change even... In my former work at CTS where I was a DCS programmer i were seeing quite similar behavior when They said oh we now have new DCS.

00:19:01: the background is gray and not green, so I don't want to work with it.

00:19:05: It sounds so stupid because like... ...the pictures or what they were seeing was exactly the same even with more information or better information to work on but that's different!

00:19:21: They worked for fifteen-twenty years in this sense of thinking.

00:19:25: Fifteen years with these backgrounds that really made them like, oh I don't know.

00:19:32: I don' trust this new software and you have to communicate a lot.

00:19:36: You have to be there And i think it applies for all of the projects That are here and make communication For us.

00:19:47: we figured out It's very important that our customer has We call it front runner sites.

00:19:54: In that rollout scenario, you first have to identify this front runner site because usually someone in the enterprise or already know which kind of site is best suited for a front-runner.

00:20:10: Maybe don't use one site with only one engineering person.

00:20:15: compared another site maybe has twenty and more resources.

00:20:22: They can figure it out that they have the chance to touch the software, To figure what's working and how It can be implemented into their processes.

00:20:34: How do you use them?

00:20:39: What are we going with this?

00:20:43: And honestly This always takes a lot of time on our side.

00:20:49: We're seeing in our customers That at first A bit of a resistance for from the end users, but then they start to realize oh it's bringing benefit To me and then they they proceed to use it.

00:21:03: And They Yeah started like it and figure out Oh there is another use case or at least something else.

00:21:10: maybe we should.

00:21:11: We should take the opportunity with this platform and use it.

00:21:15: so When we go to your project back What have you seen in that scenario, what was your experience?

00:21:22: and not anger?

00:21:23: Yeah.

00:21:25: You already covered I think most of the points which is quite interesting but just in a different context.

00:21:29: And...I Think what it's really important when you start an initiative or like use strategy Which we want to implement in our company you need to take care That you get up-and running.

00:21:46: so either if you have one big organization, some kind of key users or people who are already convinced.

00:21:55: Or at least willing to help with this project in your case these frontrunner sites and you need quite quickly something which can show it doesn't help If You Have A Nice PowerPoint Presentation or Some Screenshots system or at least a demo-system, best already in the system which is running somewhere where you can use to start your conversation on how we use it.

00:22:27: What are maybe the pain points of people who were affected by this change?

00:22:30: Because changes always hard and they're always resisting to change.

00:22:34: I think that's something very natural for living beings And also understand what other next steps.

00:22:41: so not only first use cases, which may be also part of a management presentation but these day-to-day benefits come from that.

00:22:50: So this was the case in the project I was talking about.

00:22:54: we took a look and had different sites with different countries and quite quickly understood what countries are using the system or not using it because you saw how much data is up to date where there were many data accesses like two years ago.

00:23:12: And then you start maybe not with the best side or this is a best organizational part in your company, because they are too far away.

00:23:22: But people who are trying to use it and people were using that already say seventy eighty percent of the time and talk to them about what other new benefits currently?

00:23:34: Can you may be talked to your colleagues about that?

00:23:37: can you be an ambassador?

00:23:39: we called on this case for the system Of course to get out the side which are using it one hundred percent and so.

00:23:45: but we need some part where you start.

00:23:51: And understand, then let them tell their benefits of this system not as a management consultant or an external partner because they can support storytelling.

00:24:02: people will more listen to their internal colleagues that they know typically than external people.

00:24:08: just fine offcourse.

00:24:09: The important thing is that you make a plan and go along with the people in the sites to understand it.

00:24:21: I think, most importantly take them seriously so they can say why don't want use this system or what are your thoughts on that?

00:24:33: What are your pain points for day-to-day working life Benefit which they have when I come to this work in the morning or during lunchtime Or at the end of today and day.

00:24:47: They know that This is something with new system.

00:24:50: helps me move you if there's a something Where where they already learn are convinced?

00:24:57: And yeah for us it was i think The main part, what understanding were decided?

00:25:01: What does?

00:25:02: is the current maturity of the implementation off-the-system?

00:25:05: Which other people who are the People Who Are using the System who are the people that were against this system and try to somehow match them with each other, use those people whom I convinced as well.

00:25:23: And of course then an interesting thing when you start conversations between groups which typically don't work together but use a system together is One part of the group has maybe totally different ideas and use cases than other parts, but which they can benefit from.

00:25:44: So if you start this conversation going in such a creative phase to say how we could make our day-to-day work better... Different people have different ideas that they can synergize with each others.

00:25:59: And I think these conversations are so helpful for software implementation process because it's not only a technical conversation.

00:26:07: As I said, the technical parts are important of course and they're typically difficult but this is something which experts like us can cover.

00:26:16: The other thing which reachablely cannot cover or at least not directly we can support that is this organizational change Which comes with it.

00:26:26: And there's some things where much more people business let say and leadership business from an internal perspective

00:26:35: ideas or the insights you gave.

00:26:38: You give us about this topic because I see the same for our implementation, specifically when there's kind of trust level that exists Because it is always very important.

00:26:50: a lot of initiatives When something new is coming people have to trust.

00:26:55: and how can they build up trust as mentioned?

00:26:59: To use the system figure out everything working Working examples that they see.

00:27:04: oh, it's succeeding.

00:27:06: It's fast.

00:27:07: you are much faster than before.

00:27:08: its more reliant.

00:27:10: You can see the whole system like in industrial data fabric?

00:27:13: You can't seed the whole systems not different Different applications or a systems where you have to watch.

00:27:20: we'll have to seize everything running.

00:27:22: Or when you do your configuration of the jump back and forth or Everything is on one place for you in one platform.

00:27:29: so That this helpful but really the benefit comes when the end user is really able to do something with it in its day-to-day work, and this builds up trust.

00:27:45: And I think i have a similar customer where they said like yeah!

00:27:51: When we're now onboarding a new site or a new system It's quite easy for us because We are already so well known side of the company.

00:28:04: we either have someone that already promoted us to do it with the platform or uh, We find out who is going to promote us in that sense.

00:28:16: So as you mentioned It's like not an integrator Or a solution consultant is coming in and saying oh That would be a great software to use for you And to solve your problem.

00:28:27: its more The day-to-day business off stuff in the company that they are figuring out, hey!

00:28:36: That could also help us.

00:28:37: In...in ...that problem.

00:28:39: or it would be a good solution for us to achieve this data exchange where we do something else because they figure out its working and they trust it.

00:28:48: And there is also some thing you cannot build up trust overnight.

00:28:51: It takes time and effort but when it's...and it's there for you..it's very strong Because then getting rolling in the industrial data fabric platform itself.

00:29:06: because then you figure out, oh all these use cases are not so different from each other.

00:29:12: We have like maybe one hundred different use cases but at the end it's five classes of use cases that are working in a similar way and have different sources or destinations for them to work in same ways.

00:29:27: So thats very interesting.

00:29:30: I think We still have to, we're not really on the data part but I would like one very important word which is so good.

00:29:41: Trust.

00:29:41: and it's that you need a trust in such an implementation project especially for shop floor or people who are working with them.

00:29:49: But basically they needed trust at every level because as already said It's an organizational change Not only IT implementation projects.

00:29:59: The whole thing is in transformation or at least a change.

00:30:02: And that means you need trust on every level which as part of this project, does the change Which we talk quite extensively about already how can create trust from shop floor and operational levels?

00:30:20: but also needs trust.

00:30:21: well management because they will pay for these changes.

00:30:26: You need trust on the IT level, who needs to implement it in the operational part.

00:30:37: And then each management IT shop floor or OT have different perspectives and priorities so they need things that can trust.

00:30:52: this project.

00:30:53: as transformation Management typically needs trust, you can create a trust in the management by doing good risk assessment.

00:31:02: Doing clear project plan and budget planning And basically taking responsibility from them to taking responsibly over for project delivery.

00:31:14: This is how...and then of course keeping them on loop when running into problems consulting them giving information that they decisions, how to resolve these problems and I mean every project will run into...I have never had a project which has not ever ran in any problem because you can plan as well.

00:31:38: As long that something comes up then of course we need people who are going to solve this And the more trust you created on a management level, the better you can resolve problems which you cannot resolve yourself within your team.

00:31:52: You need also trust in the IT side for IT.

00:31:57: I think that most important thing is.

00:32:00: they need to have transparency about the scoping and transparency of systems involved or systems will be involved if we implement new system.

00:32:11: You need a good staffing, a good operations model for both the projects but also then for the operation later.

00:32:20: And you need I think a connection to users and management so that IT can work because typically IT is not only there because we love technology.

00:32:32: of course We loved good technology But it's not only technology For the sake of technology or organization working and creating value in the organization.

00:32:44: So this is something where Tripoli ITs are sitting between, we talked about trust on people who own a shop floor.

00:32:53: I'm not so sure how to create trust at the OT level?

00:32:56: There you have more expertise!

00:32:59: On the OT Level there's this difference between the IT and the OT Where IT is focused regular updates keeping this the systems with the newest patches and if something is Something you have to update.

00:33:18: You just updated.

00:33:19: OT has a very specific task And it's more sinking in the timeframes of their systems like the DCS and Skade or PLC systems were there.

00:33:31: they implemented not for two Or three years, but they liked four ten year scope.

00:33:37: They have to run and be maintained, only small windows where they can change or upgrade.

00:33:45: So OT has a very narrow focus on keeping the process running.

00:33:54: probably collides with someone from IT that says, oh we have a new Windows update just restart this.

00:33:59: Or

00:34:02: our system please migrate everything?

00:34:05: Please

00:34:05: migrate everything.

00:34:07: and of course if within in the regulated industry Of course The validation And quality part comes also to play where you say okay how I is my change management working and how I'm documenting it in the validation processes.

00:34:25: So what are the changes to my SOPs?

00:34:29: How do i document them, What makes a difference?

00:34:32: because you're also from a Validation perspective.

00:34:36: It's same way as mentioned before From technical perspectives that an industrial data fabric now something new Because for the validations its usually the sites of their own validation heads on their own, so they are usually maybe referred to global SOPs or refered something but not used to work this close together from a validation perspective as well.

00:35:02: From the Global to Site Validation.

00:35:05: This is also quite similar to other topics.

00:35:09: we touched that in the validation it's more-or-less the same.

00:35:13: They're very use to have their way of doing things.

00:35:18: And now we come in with a new platform that is originating from a global perspective and then can be used on the site as well.

00:35:31: So it's also a change process here, where they figure out how are you doing your documentation?

00:35:39: Because what I've seen quite often in the regulated industry buying and selling plants, then they get integrated.

00:35:53: Then you have to figure out okay how is this fitting inside of the validation structure?

00:36:00: How can it be integrated?

00:36:02: that its working here.

00:36:04: there are additional stakeholders.

00:36:08: They also need to know what's going on because on their own, but they will ensure that the validation qualification of everything is working smooth and also have to understand what software are doing.

00:36:27: They need an understanding about why we're doing this?

00:36:33: What's a good way or how do you do it in such a way so people can figure out if something works well for them into the validation structures.

00:36:50: Cool,

00:36:52: I think we have covered trust on different levels.

00:36:56: now We haven't covered maybe that the main topic of our conversation yet which is data.

00:37:01: and Maybe let's start with trust in data.

00:37:04: Of course this also something.

00:37:06: why?

00:37:06: Why were talking about IDF?

00:37:09: First because two things.

00:37:11: of course you need to be able To access and use a date but it will also have to trust data.

00:37:18: And I think, so typically for me trust in data has different components.

00:37:23: Of course i have to understand where the data is coming from.

00:37:28: Is it correct?

00:37:28: So that quality of the data The consistency if you have this is a...I Think something which especially we have different sites with similar processes and sometimes they Have the same data so-to say but its still inconsistent different, maybe for a good reason.

00:37:47: Maybe not so this is something.

00:37:48: when you go on the global level You have problems to combine these data.

00:37:52: Which aspects of trust in data do you typically encounter?

00:37:56: When you can come to clients

00:37:58: yeah I In the regulated industry it's always very interesting because For us from a data perspective we then already Have like two different kinds Of data that we are collecting.

00:38:11: one is The GXP relevant data all of the data we need for the regulatory institutes.

00:38:20: So this is the important data, maybe the data where they final reports are generated and... They're important to us because you may be creating medicine or drugs.

00:38:31: You want to ensure that they have quality in everything you expect it.

00:38:37: so its very important Of course.

00:38:39: And there's a lot additional data that brings value to the business, to optimize the process.

00:38:50: To do everything and achieve better processes related information like need less energy you will have the same product at the end but maybe in needless energy be more efficient on that sense.

00:39:10: so there are always these different use cases aspects for us.

00:39:17: Is it GXP?

00:39:19: Very important, we have a lot of regulation on it.

00:39:22: or is business value data that brings benefit to the enterprise but its not under regulated side?

00:39:35: and both of them are important as you mentioned in context.

00:39:41: Where is it?

00:39:42: from which asset Does this data belong?

00:39:46: What context is it?

00:39:47: so that you get a bit more like oh, yeah I have here twenty four.

00:39:52: what Is It?

00:39:53: Oh its Twenty Four Degree Celsius and Its Temperature And It's Here In The Asset.

00:40:02: Then You Have A Bit More Insights Regarding What does This Value Means And then Specifically From the OT Perspective We Then Also Have the timestamp, the value itself and from standards like OPC we also have a quality attribute that gives us this insight.

00:40:22: Hey is it's the sensor good?

00:40:26: Are we out of range or something else?

00:40:28: so that we get all these additional quality aspects that are very common on the OT level.

00:40:36: as an OT engineer everyone would say oh yeah Value equality and the time stamp is a very common pattern for me so that I also have to the quality.

00:40:47: if The transmitter, okay or if?

00:40:50: If the measurement is fine And we also have half this other normal attributes.

00:40:56: So you typically what do say?

00:40:58: it's really but what would be need both for regulatory terms But especially also.

00:41:04: I mean regulatory typically doesn't give you much benefits.

00:41:06: You have to do it of course and it's also good that you'd do it from many perspectives.

00:41:12: But it doesn't really give you performance boosts, effective booths.

00:41:17: this is something where you typically want to use the data well let's say for new news cases and if they are only getting more efficient in some process or identifying inefficient parts of a For this you need typically the context of data and also have to integrate or combine data together.

00:41:42: Because only one sensor doesn't tell much, at least it needs some kind of timeline.

00:41:48: so in comparison with other sensors on different sites maybe another site is doing better.

00:41:56: So basically a context in data integration if there's something else which we create value from data.

00:42:04: These are the main two things.

00:42:06: when it comes to technical part of.

00:42:07: It then depends how you see data because sometimes, its a bit more than just collecting data or transferring data.

00:42:15: Because yes one off use cases is like getting the data from shop floor Providing into cloud application.

00:42:26: they can do predictive maintenance Or prediction models run on and then optimize your process.

00:42:33: But there are also other insights or other kind of data you want to transfer with an industrial data fabric.

00:42:40: Sometimes it's like just files, sometimes you have pictures where you have reports that are in PDF for a text file and we're going to transfer from one point into the system to another one And You Also Want To Ensure This Working.

00:42:58: Another Interesting Part Can Be A Message Exchange.

00:43:03: So when I want to go on a specific example, what we were doing for our customer and supporting them in generating a global message broker that is always working with the same messages between MES systems and the respective OT process system.

00:43:30: we had a set of standard messages that the MES engineers were always using to get or communicate with... ...with the shop floor, with the line.

00:43:43: And what we're doing in the Industrial Data Fabric is translating these messages into specific commands so it can be understood from shop floor system.

00:44:00: So if it's, for example a somatic batch system then we were translating the message.

00:44:06: that Somatic Batch can understand it.

00:44:08: If It is just PLC and has some standards or its The same for this vendor all of time.

00:44:15: Then We Were Creating A Template That Can Also Be Then Reused Again For All Of These Lines With This Kind Of PLCs In Place.

00:44:29: make it more transparent for us, which kind of messages are used and how they're used.

00:44:35: So to standardize the MES workflow And also to have a more standards.

00:44:40: that's how we can connect these OT systems.

00:44:44: then when you have a somatic batch system at other site You can reuse it!

00:44:50: We use the same messages...you can work with them again.

00:44:55: Then its not just about I get I record this process data, but it's like the message exchange and being a message broker in between.

00:45:05: Not only for real-time data to capture or to hysterize it... ...but also to really ensure that different systems can talk with each other….

00:45:14: …and be really the interface inbetween.

00:45:17: Especially if you have different sides of different equipment as we said – this message transfer– But also some kind of data harmonization that maybe the data fields are completely different names in different sites.

00:45:32: That on a higher data layer you can basically harmonize and standardize these data fields, that you combine them to compare them is something which I had an approach at which was one of... The original goal was just have it as a data layer with many different sides or devices.

00:45:55: The main problem was not so much the data layer itself, it's quite standard actually.

00:46:00: But to understand that we had like fifty different devices and each device has more or less the same measurements of the same data but completely different interpretation in naming this sensor data.

00:46:18: And then the most important thing was, well we have to somehow combine on a higher level this data into something which can be understood globally and not only if you say this device sends this data.

00:46:31: This is same field name as in other side.

00:46:35: so I think there's also this data harmonization that it really important but also quite beneficial if want compare sites or combined data not only road e-ports, but also for operational improvements and efficient gains.

00:46:52: Maybe you have a concrete case where formation pharma environment has actually changed something?

00:46:58: Yeah I think the previous use cases that was mentioned regarding this message exchange is big change how how the organization operates.

00:47:19: So because previously there were MES engineers that we're interacting with each different process and engineers or DCS programmers to figure out, How can we interact with each other for every specific batch workflow?

00:47:44: That they were implementing this now got translated into the MES, focusing on how do I structure everything so that it's working with these standard messages.

00:47:59: Can we identify every thing?

00:48:01: And then in other part where comes to process was more like okay is there already a standard interface that is our collection and communication classes?

00:48:18: Yes, there is one.

00:48:19: Okay let's see... Let's use it.

00:48:21: Oh!

00:48:21: There are none.

00:48:22: How can we identify that its generic enough?

00:48:25: That we don't have to create hundreds of them?

00:48:32: So this is the important part.

00:48:34: It really changed way how you address these kinds of use cases or requirements.

00:48:44: You said previously we have to do this now in the initiative and then they're working with each other, doing it.

00:48:53: And someone else on another side is maybe completely different because probably had the same requirements but different engineers that didn't have the same background or information than also got into a situation where as you were mentioning really had a lot of promotion part on one side that it's always like, hey we are introducing all these new messages for you at the MES site and the OT site can understand it.

00:49:26: For each site when... When the initiative was rolled out And also That they Can work On It!

00:49:34: They have a demo system.. They can verify it then they can check.

00:49:41: in a Classical way In the regulated industry We had a DQ and p-systems, so a development qualification.

00:49:49: And the production system where we split up in on the development systems.

00:49:54: they were able to see how is this working?

00:49:57: How are you going to interact with it changing the way that we're thinking at the moment into these new ways?

00:50:06: It really helped

00:50:08: overall

00:50:10: but of course it needs some time in the organization.

00:50:14: And yeah, that brings me of course back into the scoping phase of such a program because when the industrial data fabric was designed and initiated we were for some of the integrations where you have to do integration three or four years before, because you can imagine when you get the new line it takes a lot of time beforehand.

00:50:53: The decision how this line will be implemented was done maybe long before that's related to Fabric Initiative even announced and promoted in in the company.

00:51:08: So you then have for the first implementations definitely this friction where they said like, yeah I've no idea why are we doing this now?

00:51:17: Okay or ah!

00:51:18: We're a bit late in that game sense.

00:51:22: Yeah especially when you had these long time frames and maybe even people who did the scoping... ...or the decision to not be there anymore.

00:51:36: Maybe things have changed, we had a new site implemented during that time.

00:51:41: It's always important when you take the decision for such implementations to write down and make your core team understand why they are doing it.

00:51:54: And especially if there is long-time frame you also need to understand what is really division or mission statement of the thing, which is really hard requirements.

00:52:06: And what on the other side can you maybe adjust to a new reality when things are changing during time for implementation?

00:52:18: Or between the scoping and start of an implementation doing the implementations in the rollout with the goal life of the implementation.

00:52:27: so hard facts, hard requirements and what is basically the thing where music plays.

00:52:34: So you can still adjust things also for benefits of shop floor or IT And create a common understanding on every level For that.

00:52:49: so why are we doing this implementation?

00:52:52: Why do have to prioritize now implementing new system despite it not bringing directly benefit on the shop floor?

00:53:00: because people have to change things.

00:53:02: And then, typically during change processes you first have a dip in productivity.

00:53:07: so productivity goes down before it goes up fully higher than before no?

00:53:13: So this is my maybe also why we have this resistance.

00:53:16: typically they say I don't have time or priority for doing project.

00:53:20: now work on our core processes and create value where I typically created work as the shop floor or on all your tea site.

00:53:33: Creating this common understanding of a vision, goal that we want to be in two-to twelve months or one-two years is really important for such project also adjusting it into new realities.

00:53:52: For this you typically need a strong leadership from on every level.

00:53:56: so On projects project sponsor levels or management typically needs to have buy-in But also under people who are doing the operational implementations or typically.

00:54:05: You have a Project lead your for technical lead, you Have a lead in those in the teams which are affected by the change So one of their IT side and the OT site on the plant side.

00:54:18: And these people have to have this common understanding and talk as one voice.

00:54:22: Maybe with different perspectives, but they all of them must be convinced that it is good what we are doing!

00:54:29: When you have a one crack somewhere if the management is not convinced well then you can stop your project immediately because...well..if you don't have the management support for whom are?

00:54:43: but also on the other levels because then one part of the puzzle will be missing at the end and this thing cannot succeed.

00:54:50: So you need all these perspectives, take care that everybody is onboard for it!

00:54:57: Yeah I like his insights.

00:54:59: what he was mentioning specifically we were seeing after some implementations as mentioned not first maybe second or third.

00:55:13: when moving onto next implementations, it got much more easier.

00:55:17: Everyone knows what to do.

00:55:20: everyone was also from a timing perspective.

00:55:24: we know which kind of information did need when to be successful that all these processes are much smoother and everyone gained knowledge From every stakeholder.

00:55:37: they have more knowledge on what is going And we already did it successful, so how are doing again better and faster?

00:55:47: This is what we're then seeing.

00:55:48: It's getting faster and faster to a point where its very common and usual... ...to do in the new way or at the beginning was different.. ..and now they really know that this is the next step which you have to take.

00:56:05: Its' been really cool when you see how fast how it can progress.

00:56:11: Yeah, that's really the part where fun starts.

00:56:14: so to say of course we're not doing this for a fund but then you see there is big interaction new ideas.

00:56:22: people are also starting think in different ways and they trust... We had this trust before.

00:56:31: They trusted process But they also trusted team.

00:56:34: So something when your only learn make things better make things faster and repeat things which should have worked before, but also trust the process behind it.

00:56:44: I think this is something that's very important in such implementation projects as you should trust a process both at beginning or end of the year.

00:56:54: At the begining most people think well i don't know.

00:56:57: fifty percent of implementations fail so they probably will fail.

00:57:01: You should trust your processes already from start to finish.

00:57:05: if and they are here to help you, then you should also just give them the benefit of a doubt.

00:57:13: So trust them at the beginning and let them convince you.

00:57:16: but at some point when your part of such an transformation You should start to trust yourself that you can be part of this transformation And this transformation is good for you in your organization.

00:57:28: I think there's... Then their responsibility also shifts into internal organizations and operational people.

00:57:36: And once this trust is gained in the organization, then really as I said fun part starts because people come forward with new ideas.

00:57:48: You get these and it's very important.

00:57:51: you don't only want to have a go live or roll out but also an evolution after that.

00:57:57: so... You implement the first use cases and I think this is especially true for the industrial data fabric.

00:58:05: You typically start with basic use case which of course are creating value but not at end-of-the line, you can do so much more when your have to data in right place And it should start a latest.

00:58:18: when you did implemented the Industrial Data Fabric and the First Use Cases starts.

00:58:24: we had conversation.

00:58:26: what else could be done?

00:58:28: What else is creating benefit when we now use the data, which we have in a structured way?

00:58:35: And I think you should never forget this point to trust people and your organization then.

00:58:41: To take over... ...and do more cool things.

00:58:45: that much more than what you originally had on your five-year plan.

00:58:50: Anticipate it like five years ago because you typically anticipate the important things and basic things.

00:58:56: And straightforward things.

00:58:57: but this creative part.

00:58:58: afterwards, You have to give to people also a chance on their ability.

00:59:03: take over system make them there own.

00:59:05: Oh yeah I totally agree with that part Because its so interesting.

00:59:12: when then see industrial data fabric as platform be available on an enterprise level, On the site.

00:59:22: Then as you said it really makes fun because then You can start to Really think about what else should we connect?

00:59:32: Because We did for a specific purpose To get this in place.

00:59:38: but now we Can do so much more and make use of So Much More Technology In that sense That It's amazing what kind of ideas are really emerging from, oh now I have it in place.

00:59:56: Now i can install here the software and connect to a new data source and boom!

01:00:02: I can transfer further state also to the cloud and its working.

01:00:06: for me It's just standard way know nothing where I had figure out all these firewall rules or how you can establish this kinda communication is like That's.

01:00:19: that's my my PLC.

01:00:21: I want to connect it and i need the data over there, too.

01:00:24: support this new predictive maintenance initiative To figure out if its working or not.

01:00:30: then It's getting much more faster from The timing perspective because you have the platform in place And when it's in place?

01:00:39: Its Much easier for You to extend it.

01:00:43: yeah also on on regulatory aspects Because Then It's already here.

01:00:49: You're already shown that all of this core functionality off the platform is working for you, so don't have to think about oh how it's a validation working for your... No!

01:01:02: I want do it and then we can be much faster on that point.

01:01:12: We definitely realized that our customers are changing their view of it.

01:01:20: So, as you were mentioning like the... Oh!

01:01:24: This is my first use case I want to implement.

01:01:27: It's getting so easy that they are focusing on much more difficult Use cases than before and say hey maybe we can also tackle this kind of problem.

01:01:39: That was not possible for the last twenty years but now We really have a software where where we can also tackle this problem.

01:01:49: Yeah, and I think that is quite interesting.

01:01:52: now what i think about it.

01:01:54: you should already plan for that.

01:01:58: take care of when do the initial scoping or strategy for such a data layer because let's be honest its'a big investment.

01:02:09: It will probably create some tears or at least discussions And it's a long way until the swimming is up and running.

01:02:20: The data are at the right place, I think already in the beginning of such scoping phase or strategy phase.

01:02:30: you have to be aware that this will take some time because we're going change things.

01:02:35: so we need to indicate silos which has been there before but not only should put into your vision stage when We want to do that because we want to create one specific use case, but.

01:02:49: We want enable our organization for more data-driven use cases.

01:02:53: from new ideas I mean the AI hype is now a few years old not so many years and Now you're gonna be happy if your have the date at right place Because you need data harmonized in one place using it for an AI.

01:03:12: If you now start to create your own data systems, it's gonna be too late because we will miss this hype.

01:03:18: So whenever you think about industrial data fabric and data harmonization... ...think not only the use cases which are doing today but they may come in five or ten years from now!

01:03:31: Which might have a technology advancement because some clever person in your company and there are clever people on the company has a new idea.

01:03:40: So it's not only system for specific use cases, its an enabler of much more data usage which you cannot think about today but we can be sure that will be ready to them.

01:03:53: And I think this is really strong statement which also can used when start such as scoping phase.

01:03:59: Don't do one use case or enablement for future.

01:04:06: Oh yes, that's a very good statement from your part because it is so important you don't forget the vision where we want to go.

01:04:17: Where he really says oh yeah!

01:04:19: That

01:04:20: was my goal when I went there Because honestly speaking this will take some time and not be finished in months or two.

01:04:28: So you need more time for everything running.

01:04:33: um yeah to go over all these hurdles through and through.

01:04:39: you really need this, this shining star somewhere that you say okay.

01:04:47: This was the idea why we were doing it then also can do it.

01:04:53: as he mentioned before It must be communicated inside of company with statements because in different facets where when the leadership was changing for initiative, this can be a smooth handover that it's continued as before or you could also get into position were your frozen again and have to question yourself.

01:05:28: Hey!

01:05:29: Are we doing still right thing?

01:05:31: Is is something will move?

01:05:33: well really The the steps or well really the goals where we want to go with this program and that could be then a bit hard.

01:05:42: in between That the organization itself figure out their statement.

01:05:48: Where do I want to?

01:05:50: because Specifically, they're leadership on the platform is very important for you.

01:05:55: that day They are convincing Internally.

01:05:58: the others

01:06:00: Yeah And i think how did he call it?

01:06:02: at the shining star were you?

01:06:06: It's really important, but also a challenge to get the right level.

01:06:10: So today if you have very high-level strategic mission statement like we want it be data driven company this probably will survive.

01:06:20: leadership change typically But its too broad to intransparent for an operationalization tool, the real change in a company.

01:06:32: You need then basically put it on.

01:06:34: what does that mean for us?

01:06:37: What does this mean for technical solution?

01:06:40: and if you have two narrow goals of project like we want access through data field This might not be true in few years anymore And this may not survive.

01:06:52: a company change Like leadership changes create something in between which is stable enough for a few years, so it survives during the project.

01:07:02: But there's also concrete enough that people who are doing their project work and implementation work understand why they're doing this.

01:07:11: If we implement an industrial data fabric just being a data-driven company nobody will be convinced by that.

01:07:20: if you tell them our core processes and the plans, I don't know increase efficiency by five percent or so.

01:07:33: This is much more concrete but maybe not concrete enough still.

01:07:37: But this something which you can translate it to people who are affected by that And i think strategic anchor for such a project.

01:07:45: It's also important because many projects start with system decision.

01:07:53: We want to implement this system because, well... Because we wanted.

01:07:58: This will not survive the first two or three escalations in a project and they'll come of course!

01:08:06: And I think that also there's conversation which is beneficial because already then you identify The First use cases are the first parts where you start with such transformation when your thinking about strategic anchor this mission statement of a project.

01:08:25: So you should never skip that!

01:08:28: Another thing which I have seen is, and also when we talk about data use cases sometimes it's to identify who uses case but then... And then you start well evaluating the project try to find out what the data is nowhere to be found.

01:08:46: You don't need the data.

01:08:51: What now?

01:08:51: Do you have an idea?

01:08:53: So what would you do when you see, well a client has no idea but the data is not really there yet.

01:08:59: Not collected or not accessible in systems?

01:09:06: I can definitely see Or have seen this In our Customer projects where you then Have someone from the upper management saying oh yeah When should i go with my Microsoft HoloLanes through the factory and see everything digitally.

01:09:29: And in reality, you're missing the network cable on the PLC.

01:09:34: so typically it's always these small parts because from an OT communication perspective there are all the tools available for your or... There is many solutions that can connect to it.

01:09:51: usually its more for you to identify.

01:09:54: okay if I have If I don't have the data already in a system, how can i get it?

01:10:00: Because sometimes It's that easy like oh yeah.

01:10:04: Just have to plug-in A network cable To the PLC and... ...I got the data or I Have to figure out Like The firewall rules How Can I access it?

01:10:19: And That most of time.

01:10:24: The challenge that you say, oh I have to identify the equipment.

01:10:29: I Have to figure out can it communicate?

01:10:32: because sometimes It's also like Oh yeah?

01:10:37: its a process they cannot communicate with You.

01:10:41: So not all Not so common in the regulated industry where we'd Say is definitely A lot of times There Is a Process Control System Where We Can Connect To.

01:10:52: That has a certain protocol.

01:10:55: It's more in other industries where you say, okay maybe I have to start with installing a sensor?

01:11:01: To figuring out yeah

01:11:03: i think this is well the one on of the...I would say from a data perspective very good parts of pharma.

01:11:10: You have so much data So plenty of sensors and systems which collect data.

01:11:16: So it's not about a question whether you have a data or not Typically too much data and it's more like a data integration problem than or data access problems as I said firewalls, connecting systems.

01:11:31: Yeah or data identification problem.

01:11:35: so i have to identify which of the data points that are supporting me in the long run not bold statements that someone is throwing out and saying like oh, yeah we connect the PLC And then we collect all of the data and historicize it.

01:11:58: Then you figure out Yeah There's a lot of information That Is not useful for You at The long run or even At All?

01:12:09: We have to go back and do this all Of This exercise again and say Oh now I Have all the Data but Maybe Not the right Context Or Probably don't.

01:12:19: It's an information point, but it has no value to the process.

01:12:22: so why should I capture?

01:12:24: Why should i store and maybe transfer it into a cloud if nobody can use it?

01:12:29: So more in that sense creating data swamps Somewhere on the IT landscape The good old Data Lake Where all of this data fabric scenario originates from.

01:12:49: really the need that everyone was figuring out, I would say ten years ago.

01:12:52: Everyone were saying hey just sent a data in the cloud someone will figure out how to use it.

01:12:58: and i think this statement changed.

01:13:01: so its really Hey!

01:13:05: I have here new equipment that are implementing.

01:13:09: let's figure what kind of information is important for our process?

01:13:14: And then already connected because then we can figure out later how we can improve the process on it, but to know which kind of informations are important for you.

01:13:28: That is for engineers creating a new line and easy task at that point when they're building up their equipment.

01:13:42: It's a much harder task for someone to figure out later, come back and say oh what is the important process values.

01:13:51: Where are they here?

01:13:53: And then you need maybe more persons in the room because you already had a project where they were deciding this kind of process and figuring out What it's important To make these running This person or group not only one engineer that he doing but like his group of experts that are facilitating, installing the new line for example.

01:14:20: They they are knowledgeable.

01:14:24: what kind data could be interested to connect?

01:14:27: And I think this is exactly a point.

01:14:29: so these questions... A data lake typically wasn't an IT solution.

01:14:34: it was technical decision.

01:14:36: we put this data in and we're done.

01:14:39: but For really having benefits or value from data, you need a cross-functional team.

01:14:45: You need the people who are understanding it form technical point of view but also need to be able for process and organizational point of which data is important in which forms isn't important when do we needed where?

01:15:00: And exactly this cross functional discussion will have you have to understand basically all the different layers which are part and we already talked about that quite extensively IT, OT shop floor business front office.

01:15:17: So You need to connect these perspectives for having a good design For data And I think this is exactly what we're doing in projects when combine our expertise.

01:15:29: so both technology point of view Let's say organizational business point of view combined with some kind of leadership in all these different dimensions.

01:15:40: Yeah, I totally agree that it is like the Synology Of bringing All of this aspects together because at The beginning you said oh i have a new software That they are implementing but In reality You establishing A New Way of Working and New way of Thinking And as you mentioned It Is Like foundation for real AI use cases, that you have a solid data foundation.

01:16:09: That you have the solid platform where you can rely on where as an enterprise or company has trust in it?

01:16:17: You really could say oh I trust how this is working... ...I have no fear of breaking and doing something that's not expected.. ..I really need to trust their software!

01:16:29: This builds up over time and brings everything together.

01:16:33: So really this time, in reality it tells me also when we were doing the first time with a customer in the regulated industry... It's different!

01:16:51: And honestly speaking right now When I look back to them there are so many hard steps at these times that For now, these are the easy parts for us where we know figured out.

01:17:06: oh yeah.

01:17:07: We have a...we saw common pattern how to tackle this problems or how to guide a customer through ways and tell them like Yeah you have these goals.

01:17:19: This is something that it's not done in some weeks.

01:17:23: We need more time but we now have A lot of experience gained from those projects Honestly speaking about these programs because they last for more than just a project.

01:17:35: They are multiple projects in parallel that I'm going on and exceed their own, like involving mission statements over the time where you say okay what do i want to with this platform?

01:17:50: This increases with the maturity of the company Because You get more trust in it.

01:17:58: what can we do with this software?

01:18:01: What is it good for?

01:18:03: and then really take on here the stage where you see, oh yeah.

01:18:09: We...we..can support someone from a technical perspective.

01:18:17: how are we going to connect all these systems?

01:18:19: How will we set up architecture?

01:18:23: This is easy part And that also supports us.

01:18:28: What was our lessons learned from previous integrations?

01:18:35: what kind of schemas are well known for us already and can be adjusted and Incorporated into the normal workflows?

01:18:47: that it's running smooth.

01:18:49: And It will take some time, but after effect makes you more agile and faster in the implementation, And all of this part of the OT&IT data communication to really establish a communication layer that is more transparent.

01:19:12: More centrally configurable than one place to look at.

01:19:17: Then it's much easier for you then to pick up.

01:19:20: Oh yeah!

01:19:21: For this side I need that and I need another tool to do something else, so it really makes your overall life easier.

01:19:34: And when i think about our discussions up until now... ...I think we covered mostly the difficult things which we have encountered that also cause projects to fail like the strategic beginning, change management at the end because The middle part we typically have covered as you said.

01:20:01: We've seen the invariance of projects with many clients, what are the typical problems?

01:20:08: As a project lead you need to have good project plans.

01:20:12: they call them communication risk management team that can trust or at least set up a team which is cross-functional and capable.

01:20:25: We take care of the technical part, which you just talked about.

01:20:29: And we typically have covered these things because we know that from so many different clients... ...we had so many projects where we see this invariance and let's say normal project work.

01:20:46: The plan will sometimes fail when you assess what fails or adjusts.

01:20:53: you have the typical technical problems, for me to believe it's data migration and data harmonization.

01:21:02: But things which we typically also as consultants really make sure that clients can take care of this strategic management buy-in foundation And change management – which is still part take over because we cannot and actually I think you don't want to stay as an external forever in a company at some point this thing has to run on its own.

01:21:34: And it's not only, i mean We end the organization puts much effort during your project into so that they won't fail of course or be supported along with possible but he needs foundation and also then people who internally would take over at some points.

01:21:52: Everything else we can cover.

01:21:53: of course, and this is something where It's quite interesting that you have the same perspective about what it easy in a project for us.

01:22:01: Easy Of course its still effort from time to time long days And long nights sometimes but But some things which we can come up with Something were really an organization The people had to take over at one point.

01:22:20: Oh yeah I definitely agree on the part that the customer has to take over and what I then really like is this kind of new way of collaboration for us, specifically with our customers because we are not only here to make a one-time installation but also support them going on.

01:22:44: What does it mean?

01:22:45: As you said they have to build up their own system owners that they can work with the software.

01:22:51: And then it gets to a mutual understanding of the software where we, than exchange informations and also support them in new directions.

01:23:02: Where do you want go?

01:23:03: They have never done before.

01:23:05: but also comes into very interesting point.

01:23:08: what I see is We really

01:23:10: have

01:23:11: more exchange on deeper level of the platform, that you really have someone on the other side.

01:23:17: You can talk about all technical or organizational aspects at a quite different level as before where they said like oh yeah it's new software now!

01:23:29: Now we're talking deep technical and fundamental stuff.

01:23:33: when you say hey how do I achieve something with this new use case?

01:23:38: How could i do

01:23:39: it?!

01:23:43: transform it into a real running use case, into solution that is running on the platform.

01:23:49: And also in other side they will figure out some stuff and say like hey have you seen this before?

01:23:55: Let's talk about what we are doing at the moment!

01:24:00: That I think for me one of most exciting parts where not talking about basics but when really can go to advanced part of the platform that you really can exchange on a deeper knowledge level.

01:24:18: And do feel like the platform has arrived, so to say in the company?

01:24:23: That basically implementation project is done and now it's only... Of course we will develop it into maintenance but you can feel its there now!

01:24:36: The main project is successful.

01:24:40: I really like this point as well because then you can say, my work is done.

01:24:49: Of course i'm happy to support in new ideas and using it but the big chunk of we have implemented a system with a new way of working was successful.

01:25:03: so that's such good feeling.

01:25:08: But when you work in such implementation projects, it's much more not only for yourself but all people involved and then that this work had a reason.

01:25:22: And now we see the fruits of it.

01:25:23: so to say

01:25:24: Oh yeah I definitely like this!

01:25:31: That is hopefully also something where were are on the Pharma MES conference at Berlin That we can talk Talk about with the customers like on which kind of level are there at a moment?

01:25:51: Well, what I?

01:25:52: what are they doing at the moment?

01:25:54: where other pain points?

01:25:57: Are They struggling to connect systems.

01:26:00: Are they struggling to transform them?

01:26:03: this connections is data points into real use cases or solutions?

01:26:09: Where are their at the moments?

01:26:10: for me that's always the interesting part to figure out, hey what are you doing at the moment?

01:26:17: on which kind of level?

01:26:19: Are you communicating and... On this broad variation of aspects from the platform.

01:26:29: What is the important part your working on because it could be You're working on change management or It could be you were working under technical aspect Of something in that is really important.

01:26:41: interesting for me to figure out what are the key challenges at the moment.

01:26:45: Yeah, I really like the conversations there because of course i want to understand where they are and where do you go in the next years but also give them some new ideas and directions on what could be done?

01:27:03: Because sometimes people don't even know which solutions might be there.

01:27:09: The problems in business are typically the same like this data integration harmonization layer and to just show them what is already possible, that other customers typically struggle for the same things maybe make mistakes they do not have to make anymore because others companies did their mistake before.

01:27:34: So to have these conversations and this exchange of knowledge between people, that's what I'm really looking forward there as well.

01:27:44: This is something where after those two days my head was so full with new ideas hopefully the heads of other people who i talked about too That I don't want to miss these days aswell.

01:27:57: Yeah...I also like conversation in which you can then follow into the deep conversation about what is going on at the moment and, and what are the needs?

01:28:08: because you then maybe as you said.

01:28:11: You figure out oh that it's something we already did before or sometimes also Oh this is something very new.

01:28:20: how can we address?

01:28:21: How Can We Address This Issue?

01:28:23: How can we figure Out What It'S Done And Also Figure Out What Is The Correct Software Solution?

01:28:30: Because There Are As you mentioned, so many softwares out there and some really good helpful tools.

01:28:41: Someone has to tell you where are the tools?

01:28:45: And how can I use these tools?

01:28:50: How we incorporate it

01:28:51: into

01:28:52: a company then makes fun for us because otherwise maybe even don't know that this tool exists!

01:29:01: is important and will still be important next year, even getting more importance.

01:29:05: So this I think something which everybody has to address in their company.

01:29:11: so how do we get the right data?

01:29:13: The right places And use it for our new use cases?

01:29:17: because i think that can create much more benefits than value currently does Because its deep down system somewhere not integrated To understand Which Data Use Cases people have and which data problems they currently have, maybe give them also some ideas how this can solve at least the first step quite easily.

01:29:42: This is something that I'm really looking forward to.

01:29:44: Oh yeah specifically for the topic of communication and figuring out How far are there in a moment?

01:29:55: Have already established and global strategy to address all these data initiatives.

01:30:02: I think specifically in the current year where we are living with this AI hype, everyone is thinking about how can i get that data?

01:30:14: How fast can i access my systems?

01:30:17: there are some pretty smart tools but you always have to consider security validation and The organizational change, then even if the software could do it fast It really supports you.

01:30:38: If someone has walked down this road again or was able to Do it previously?

01:30:45: Then then it's much easier for you To do a second-or third time to multiply because that that really makes Makes sense and make them fun also because you see how you improve over time.

01:30:58: Yeah and as I said, most companies are in quite some spectrum on their data initiatives.

01:31:07: Some companies have very good ideas on a site level local levels.

01:31:11: So there's some local ideas and local data usage which is not but only used there And can currently be used here But would beneficial to put it into the comic?

01:31:22: global company to use and they struggle to get this local very specific ideas up for the whole organization.

01:31:31: And on the other side some companies have their data AI strategy but don't know how to operationalize that, to implement it in a company.

01:31:44: so these are typically two points where companies stand the real systems, and how to get my local specific data use cases.

01:31:59: And I think for both we have ideas in solution because we've seen that with companies before.

01:32:08: Both parts are very interesting.

01:32:10: so if you go down from a global scale to say okay i have this initiative can roll it out on each side is very interesting.

01:32:21: doing with figuring out how are the different sites working to get this running.

01:32:28: I always like this kind of perspective, but also the other one is a very interesting starting point because you say okay i have an initiative or idea and probably already had a solution it's working here.

01:32:45: so... How can scale?

01:32:51: all the work again and there are so many interesting ideas that are flowing then around.

01:32:58: how you can figure out, hey!

01:33:00: How can we create use cases that are scalable from beginning?

01:33:06: That they already designed with a mindset.

01:33:10: They can be scaled to multiple lines on site or two other sites as well.

01:33:17: So taking this in to the equation when starting all of these ideas, that is really cool.

01:33:26: That's something that drives me.

01:33:29: Cool!

01:33:29: So we're looking forward to the farmer manufacturing in Europe and looking forward for conversations there?

01:33:36: Yeah... Really happy!

01:33:40: See you

01:33:42: soon guys!